Jim Tucker, AKA DonJim

This is the third in a series of interviews with bloggers who are part of The Blogdom of God. The Blogdom of God is a loose group of Blogs that identify themselves as 'God blogs'. Today's interview is with Fr. Jim Tucker of Dappled Things. The name of his blog comes from the first line of Pied Beauty, by the great 19th-century Jesuit, Gerard Manley Hopkins. It praises God for the unusual things in life, the splotched and unique things that fall short of Platonic perfection.

Did I mention that he's a Catholic Priest and a Libertarian?

Q: First, let me start off with the most obvious question. What led you to decide to become a priest?

A: The summer before my last year of high school, I went on a combination Catholic sightseeing tour and retreat. Entering my last year of secondary education, I had been going through the normal thing of trying to decide on college majors, but nothing seemed to grab me. While on the retreat at a religious house in Western Kentucky, I got to meet a number of seminarians not much older than I was and young priests. I remember how strongly and all at once the “feeling” came of how right that was for me. Many people had suggested the priesthood to me before, but that was the first time I really gave it an honest consideration myself. I put seminary off until after college, but the “resonance” didn’t fade. So, after university graduation, I signed up and began the formal discernment and preparation in the seminary.

Q: As a protestant and as a male, the whole celibacy thing for priests has always perplexed me. What has it been like for you? Was there a time in church history where priests were allowed to marry?

A: It’s obviously not the easiest thing in the world, but I’ve found it a positive help and a way to intensify my own devotion to the ministry that’s been given me. If I had a wife and family, there would have to be some serious re-thinking of pastoral schedules and duties. Clerical celibacy in the East and West traces its history back to the example of Christ and St Paul. While there were married clergy for a long time, as well, the witness of celibacy was always there and came to be insisted upon from a very early date. The enforcement of this discipline was a bit splotchy, varying according to time and place. In the West, it eventually settled into the discipline we have now; in the East, more flexibility was allowed, with the bishops, though, always being chosen from among the celibate clergy. In the Western Church today, one can find married clergy among the permanent deacons and among some of the priests who have converted from Anglicanism or Lutheranism.

Q: When you told your family you wanted to become a Priest, what was their reaction?

A: It was very positive. Our family has always been very involved in the Church. My mom was a bit surprised, as I think back, but many others in our close and extended family seem to have expected it. Catholics sometimes joke that a mother who produces a priest will get a get-into-heaven-free card, so she wasn’t about to complain.

Q: What does your brother do for a vocation?

A: My younger brother, too, considered a religious vocation for a while. He’s an electrical engineer and has been dating a girl very seriously for some time now. My little sister is in middle school, and it’s quite safe to bet that she will not become a nun.

Q: I've never understood the different orders, ie, Jesuit, St. Francis, etc. Can you clear that up? A related question. What is a Friar? (as compared to a Priest and other similar titles)

A: The various orders sprang up over the course of the centuries to meet special needs in the Church and the world. So, the Benedictine monks arose in the 5th century, in the midst of the turmoil of the crumbling Roman Empire, to provide a tranquil community of brethren dedicated to prayer and work, forming a family based on faith rather than blood ties. The Franciscan and Dominican friars (from the Latin “fratres,” “brothers” -- a term applied to the begging orders) saw a need to leave the walls of the monastery and to bring the Gospel to the streets and to live the poverty of Christ more intensely. Other orders arose to serve as teachers, as healthcare workers, as warriors, as missionaries, etc. Each order’s rule is geared toward fulfilling its particular mission (known as its “charism,” or “gift”).

Q: For you, what is the most rewarding part about being a Priest?

A: For me, it would be the ability to open people’s hearts and eyes to the Gospel of Christ and to help them live their faith with more sincerity and devotion. Preaching, liturgy, lectures, and confession are the ways that I concentrate on doing that.

Q: If you could do anything else, what would it be?

A: I’d love to be a professor of Latin and classical literature. There are priests who do that sort of thing, but I’d probably have to run off and become a Jesuit to get the chance!

Q: Do you think there's anything the Catholic church should be doing in order to get more young people to become Priests?

A: Well, first of all, I’m not convinced that there is a critical shortage of priests, especially when one considers the pre-WWII numbers in the United States. In addition to that, there are a number of dioceses that are doing very well with attracting young vocations, Northern Virginia being one of them. I think if priests do what we’re supposed to do as ministers of Christ, if we interact with families and young people, and if we open up the riches of the Liturgy to them, God will give us many good young men as priests.

Q: Have you thought any more about some "freebies" you could give away to people on a regular basis to get them to come to church more?

A: Ha! Maybe we should turn every Wednesday into Ash Wednesday? We joke about how many people come when you give stuff away: I think the challenge for us is to hook the CEOs (Christmas and Easter Only folk) when they do come, so that they’ll want to come back -- to show them that the Gospel and the Eucharist are better “freebies” than ashes and palms.

Q: What is the most difficult challenge that you face?

A: Breaking through the apathy of a population that puts God way down on its list of priorities.

Q: Do you see any ways that the Catholic Church could be more "evangelical" in its focus?

A: Many. Especially in traditionally Catholic countries, we need to shake off the complacency that comes from resting on our laurels. More than ever, it’s important for us to find ways to “translate” the Gospel into the modern idiom, ways to address it to the concrete concerns of our time and to use all the modern means of communication at our disposal. That has to do with hauling the net of fish in. But once they’re in, what do we do? We need to rededicate ourselves to teaching doctrine with clarity and precision; to being gentle but uncompromising in calling people to the moral law; and to celebrating the sacraments with reverence and beauty. One last aspect, in an age that describes itself as “spiritual rather than religious” needs to be an increased emphasis on ecclesiality -- that, according to the testimony of scripture, the Word of God and salvation come to us only through Christ’s Body, the Church. It seems to me that we’ve done a very poor job conveying that truth of late.

Q: In the 1980's it seems like "liberation theology" was a powerful force in the Catholic Church, especially in South America. What do you think of it and is it still as popular with some Priests as it was?

A: It seems really to have passed out of fashion, which is both good and predictable. Certainly Christ came to set men free, to “preach liberty to the captives” and so forth. And, the liberationists were right that it’s hard to hear the words of the Gospel over the growling of an empty stomach. But if we turn the Gospel into a completely this-worldly thing, and if we reduce Christianity to a political movement for social betterment, and if we shoot it all through with bad economics and a Marxist anthropology, then we might as well just give up right now. Not all liberation theology did that, but its popular presentation more often than not boiled down to precisely that.

Q: How would you describe the state of the Catholic church right now?

A: The Church’s traditional cradle of Western Europe is not in a good way. Although one can find many devout parishes and much vibrant faith all over the place, it’s all a shadow of what it once was. The other historical Christian confessions of Europe are suffering from the same thing. The Church in the developing world, on the other hand, is growing by leaps and bounds, but there is a lack of the deep Catholic roots and long Christian memory of Europe. The American Church is still reeling from the sex-abuse scandals, but I don’t think this has hurled the Church into any long-term crisis of faith, as some had predicted. I think the Church worldwide finds herself in a situation not unlike the collapse of the Roman Empire or the breaking out of the Protestant Reformation (which, you know, generally doesn’t bring cheery thoughts to a Catholic’s mind): everything around us has changed, we’re disoriented by it, and now is the opportunity for a renewed evangelization.

Q: Do you still think Spiderman and Catholic Priests have a lot in common?

A: I was thinking of that post again a couple days ago. The vocation comes from outside yourself, singles you out and changes you (sometimes in not very pleasant ways), and suits you to a specific role of service to others. One goes against the vocation only at one’s own peril. Spidey, priests, St Paul, and Old Testament prophets can all be seen under that same rubric.

Q: You grew up around a lot of protestants in Kentucky, do you have any observations about the cultural/religious differences between Protestants and Catholics?

A: Other than all the ones that I think Catholics and Protestants are all familiar with, I don’t know. The kind of Protestantism I grew up around wasn’t just any old kind of Protestantism, either: it was down-home, Southern, old-time Protestantism. I suppose if I had to point to anything in particular, it would be that Catholics are much more group-minded, whereas Protestants emphasize the individual; and that Catholic imagination is filled with history (and often, in the US, ethnicity) to a degree that the Protestant imagination isn’t.

Q: You've spent a lot of time in Italy. What do you like best about that country?

A: It’s my favorite place in the world, and my four years studying there have probably been the best years I’ve had. The people and the country’s contribution to history and culture are what I like the most.

Q: Is Italian a difficult language to learn?

A: I found it easy and a lot of fun.

Q: The area around DC where you live is unique in a lot of ways and is certainly a lot different than Western Kentucky. What is it that you like/dislike the most about the DC area?

A: Country life has its charms, but I’m never so happy as when I’m in a city. Here, everything is close by, you’re surrounded by life and energy and things to do and people to meet and a very cosmopolitan population, and I like that very much. Dislikes: the traffic and the fact that I live in a suburb of DC, not the city itself.

Q: You seem to have some pretty definite libertarian tendencies, yet you've devoted your life to an institution that thrives on order and rules. Why do you think that's the case?

A: I get asked this a lot and will blog on it someday. In a nutshell, I’ve always been very independent-minded and never easily convinced that some politician knows better how I should live my life and spend my money just because he got elected to something. The Church’s law and order is very different. Most of her law is very old, her teachings have stood the test of time, and we believe that he who hears the Church, hears Christ. I think people often confuse libertarianism and libertinism. I believe that as one shifts from government control and coerced behavior to personal liberty, one must accept more order and responsibility, not less. Voluntarily accepting the Christian yoke makes a lot of sense in that light.

Q: Your opposition to the Iraq War seems to hinge on two major points, 1.) the absence of a significant and immediate threat against the US and 2.) that it's not America's place to go trotting around the planet meting out justice for foreign countries. If you were alive in 1942 do you think you would've supported the war against Nazi Germany?

A: First of all, I don’t think there is any correlation between Iraq of 2003 and Germany of 1942. Germany in World War II posed an immediate threat to American security, American interests, and American peace, and there is no doubt in my mind about the legitimacy of our entering that war. (World War I is a different question altogether.) I believed (and believe even more strongly now) that the American government did not succeed in making the case that Saddam’s regime posed a real and present danger to the United States. That’s the argument from causes. There’s also the more pragmatic question of results. It’s quite possible that the world and Iraq are much better off now than they were with Saddam -- though that point is becoming more and more difficult to sustain, and it does not serve as a legitimate ius ad bellum anyway -- but has that possible improvement justified the ever-growing cost to our pocketbooks and, far more importantly, the cost in terms of the dead Americans, dead Iraqis, the unleashed chaos, and the potential boost this war has given to further terrorism?

Q: Have you seen the movie "The Passion" and if so, what did you think of it?

A: I thought it was very good, particularly in the way in which Mel Gibson wove theology into the action of the Passion. I thought it was a powerful meditation upon the sufferings of Christ and have been recommending my people to see it.

Q: Do you think it's possible to be a Catholic and not be a Christian?

A: I suppose it depends on the sense in which one intends to use “Christian.” In the strict sense, a Christian is anyone validly baptized who has not formally rejected Christianity. In that sense, every Catholic is by definition Christian. If we use the word “Christian” more loosely to mean one who lives the Faith with dedication and sincerity, certainly there are Catholics who don’t fit the bill. But, if we use the word “Christian” in that sense, I suppose we could use the word “Catholic” in the same way and exempt them from both labels. I much prefer the stricter usage.

Q: From a protestant viewpoint, it seems like Catholics worship the Virgin Mary and various Saints almost to the point of idolatry. Is that more a matter of emphasis between the various cultural divisions within the Catholic church or is it a pretty uniform and core aspect of Catholicism?

A: Different places have their favorite saints and their different forms of devotion to them, and some cultures are less restrained than others in their veneration, but every believing Catholic will affirm that Christians who have gone to their reward and live now in the light of God’s Face form a cloud of witnesses watching over us and will not cease from praying for those of us who are still running the race. We strive very hard to draw the absolute distinction between God, the uncreated source of all blessing and salvation, and the saints, who are finite creatures whose role is to join with us in prayer and to add their pleading voices to ours. Any strength or goodness in the saint comes ultimately from God alone through Christ.

Q: I've read a number of your sermons and really enjoy them. Do you feel that writing and giving sermons is one of your spiritual gifts?

A: I really enjoy writing and preaching, and people haven’t thrown any rotten vegetables at me yet. Our rector in the seminary, who’s gone on to the archbishopric of Milwaukee now, used to say that more people drift away from the Church because of bad preaching than because of any of the other stuff. So, we had the principles of good homiletics drilled into us from the start, and the Holy Ghost keeps me from messing it up too much.

Q: What do you feel is your purpose in life?

A: To get to heaven myself, and to drag along as many people with me as I can.

Q: What do you think is the most important thing you could communicate to people?

A: The beauty of God’s holiness and the beauty that He has poured into His creation, beginning with the individual I’m talking to at the moment. To my eye, the world is full of wonder, and each person is so amazingly, uniquely splendid, that it’s hard not to be overcome by joy at it all. Christ was so moved for love of this creation that He willingly grasped it to Himself in the Incarnation, died for it on the Cross, and drags it into Paradise with Him through the Resurection. I think that if we are able to glimpse a bit of that beauty -- and to see in further reflection its connection to goodness and truth -- we’ll fall in love and find it nearly impossible not to glorify the One Who made and preserves it.

Q: Your url has donjim in it. Your first name is Jim but what's up with the Don thing?

A: Don’t worry: I’m not a mafioso. In Italy and Spain, diocesan clergy (which is what I am) are not typically addressed as Father So-and-so, but Don So-and-so. “Don” is a generic title of respect, sort of like “Sir.”

Q: Is there anything else you'd like to say?

A: I think you did a good job of covering all the bases. A happy Easter Season to you!

Be sure to check Dappled Things and Don Jim's Pulpit

Are you in the Blogdom and want to be interviewed? Send me an email.
-jd mays